muscle spasms

Hasin M

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Hi All,
I have another question. I was working on a personal trainer today and couldn't seem to get enough pressure. He reviewed a 5 in most areas with the exception of the it band where he reviewed a 6. I had all my weight on him and you could feel his muscles twitching as I was working. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.
 
muscle spasms

Some people are completely out of touch with their body and don't know what pain is.

Do NOT kill yourself trying to go deeper and deeper. Fascia responds better to gentle sustained pressure anyway. Go to a depth that is comfortable for you - and if his tissue does not respond, use less pressure rather than more.

I re-trained one person by asking them if someone with "normal" pain levels would find this painful. When he said yes, I knew he was aware of the pain but blocking it out.
 
muscle spasms

good response Marion...
I was just going to say something similar.
In my experience, I seldom get results by "forcing" or trying to power through tissue.
I get better results by using less forceful techniques - such as myofascial release.

The way I look at it....muscle spasms and guarding indicate to me that the body is protecting an area from injury or further injury.
If I go in forcefully, the body's natural response is going to be further protection...
Not good.
Now, if I can use techniques that can safely persuade those areas to release, we are all much happier!

Whether the client incicates verbally it is painful or not is less important to me than how their BODY is reacting.

I have asked clients if a certain technique is painful or uncomfortable (because I can see their body responding in that way) only to have them reply back to me through gritted teetn.."No"...or "I can take it" while holding their breath. The body itself is a much more reliable indicator if the work is too deep. I seldom ask a client for feedback on pressure any more...it usually is not as accurate as what their body tells me.
 
muscle spasms

thanks once again for the awesome advice. I will be using the question - Would a person with normal pain levels find this painful? My client did like the massage and I will be doing some structural work for him in the future.

Thanks for your patience and words of wisdom as this newbie grows into the chosen wonderful field of massage.
 
muscle spasms

Nice responses so far! :D

To Leanne - As a "newbie", you will often find yourself doing things that you second-guess later. I think it's great that you bring these kinds of questions and issues to the MassagePlanetL forums for discussion! :grin: Hopefully something shared here helps you progress more rapidly!

A few thoughts for you:

Some people, athletes in particular, are frequently able to withstand greater pressure with less reviewed discomfort. There are lots of hypotheses about why this is... healthier tissues, increased physical pain tolerance due to training activities, altered perception of physical pain signals due to training, macho unwillingness to admit intensity of pain sensations, increased tissue density, etc., etc.

All of these are very interesting, but for you, right now, it doesn't matter why.

It is NOT necessary to cause pain in the course of helping someone. Strong arguments AGAINST causing pain are becoming prevalent among those who incorporate neurodynamic concepts into their manual therapy sessions.

It is possible to apply a great deal of pressure without causing significant pain. It is possible to achieve great results with very little pressure.

Developing the ability to palpate tissue qualities and cultivating a tactile understanding of tissue responses are enormously helpful and should be some of your professional development goals. If you can feel it, you can learn to feel it change, and that will tell you volumes about how to help your clients.

If you try to force "deep pressure", you blunt your sensitivity and ability to adapt your work to the client's changing needs throughout the session. Learn to apply more pressure with less effort and relax into it as much as possible.
 
muscle spasms

Jason, thank you for your response. Your detailed information is very helpful to me and I appreciate your input. In school we were taught that the optimal therapy zone was when a client reviews pressure of 7 1/2 on a scale of 1-10. For my clients that request "Deep Tissue" I attempt to find their 7 1/2 by adjusting my tools (knuckles, fingertips, olecrenon) I have several clients that prefer light to medium pressure. I have very good results with these folks. These are my favorite massages. I can really feel my self relaxing into the massage and feel the effects that I am having on the tissues.

It seems like there are still many people out there that think "no pain, no gain" I do need to increase my skills in the area of educating clients. I guess there will always be those that won't return because the massage did not hurt like they thought it should. I never want to be the therapist that hurts!! I have had a few clients recently with very tight hamstrings. I have begun picking up the leg and applying palms or knuckles to the hamstrings while I extend the lower portion of the leg. I feel I get good results with this. Thoughts anyone?

Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!

Thank you all for your support. This is an awesome board!!
 
muscle spasms

Leanne said:
Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!
LOVE this idea! :lol:

I'm thinking you might like some Active Isolated Stretching (AIS) courses and/or Myofascial Release. As I'm sure you've seen, WaltFritz holds a lot of MFR seminars. I haven't taken one (yet) but I'll still recommend him simply because I agree with his philosophies on bodywork (and most things :) ). I do plan on attending sometime in the future when I can afford both the class AND the travel.
 
muscle spasms

Thanks Taoist. There was a Walt Fritz seminar close to me but it was advanced :( The AIS sounds good too. One of our local schools has a CEU for Myofacial Energetic Massage. Wonder if it would be similar. I have some research to do :D
 
muscle spasms

Leanne said:
Jason, thank you for your response. Your detailed information is very helpful to me and I appreciate your input. In school we were taught that the optimal therapy zone was when a client reviews pressure of 7 1/2 on a scale of 1-10. For my clients that request "Deep Tissue" I attempt to find their 7 1/2 by adjusting my tools (knuckles, fingertips, olecrenon) I have several clients that prefer light to medium pressure. I have very good results with these folks. These are my favorite massages. I can really feel my self relaxing into the massage and feel the effects that I am having on the tissues.

It seems like there are still many people out there that think "no pain, no gain" I do need to increase my skills in the area of educating clients. I guess there will always be those that won't return because the massage did not hurt like they thought it should. I never want to be the therapist that hurts!! I have had a few clients recently with very tight hamstrings. I have begun picking up the leg and applying palms or knuckles to the hamstrings while I extend the lower portion of the leg. I feel I get good results with this. Thoughts anyone?

Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!

Thank you all for your support. This is an awesome board!!

A pressure of 7 1/2? That is a remarkably specific recommendation, but don't take it as a universal, across-the-board rule.

What if the client took an Aleve or Vicodin an hour before they got on your table? Their pain sense will be blunted, so you might be doing more harm than good by the time they review "7 1/2" to you. Tissue response is far more accurate and important.

What if the person is highly ticklish? Or hypersensitive due to a skin, nerve, or other medical condition? Even light pressure will be perceived as far more intense. Again, tissue response is far more accurate and important.

The next time you are dozing off, have someone pinch you and ask you to rate it on a scale of 1-10. Notice that the act of rating it will involve a time delay as you shift to a different state of conscious processing, make the evaluation, and then voice your answer. By the time you give an answer, the pinch is long done and the tissue response has changed again. You want to develop a faster way of assessing and adapting to your client's bodies.

I think the most valuable use of the 1-10 pain scale is during assessment before the massage and again afterwards.
 
muscle spasms

Jason, thanks once again for your words of wisdom. I do inquire about pain relieving medications prior to massage. One of my instructors told a story about breaking a clients rib in clinic. The client forgot to tell him she had taken a percoset beforehand!!! Tooo scary. I'm sure my sons will love to pinch me while I'm dozing!! Tissue response will be my focus. Client education for those that say "more pressure" is on the agenda too.
 
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    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Click Here Today๐ŸŒธSusan๐ŸŒธLuna๐ŸŒธXuka๐ŸŒธLynda๐ŸŒธBrandy Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  37. SL East Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’†โ€โ™€๐Ÿ’–Tuesday ๐Ÿ’œ Ultimate destination for Asian massages๐ŸŽ‰ Two fab spots: SL Richmond Hill & SL West Oakvilleโœจ Your passport to paradise with 10 enchanting girls fr China, HK, Japan & Korea โ€” ๐Ÿ†• Aliyah, Lucy, Cindy, Yui, new Jojo, Coco, Cici, busty Amber, Kelly & Jasmine โ€” ready to pamper you๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ Ring us ๐Ÿ“ž647-695-6354 or text us ๐Ÿ“ฑ647-578-8169โœจ 160 East Beaver Cr., Unit 12, RichmondHill ๐Ÿ’ฐWhere Eastern charm meets Western comfort - your bliss awai
  38. SpringGreen.:
    Apple off your weeked with a bang๏ผ Judy is at spring green in downtown toronto Tuesday from 9am-9pm with apple and coco. apple is a very beautiful andcaring young lady๏ผkitty is super hot.๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹647-891-0699 ask and text questions thanks๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹
  39. wilson holistic centre:
    new girl works at ๐Ÿ’‹535 Evans Ave today ๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’•โ˜Ž๏ธโ˜Ž๏ธ416-531-6969โ˜Ž๏ธโ˜Ž๏ธ
  40. Spa in Markham:
    GOLDEN FS โ€“ 8380 Kennedy Rd ๐Ÿ“ž 905-258-0777 / 416-688-6886 ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฌ CANDY, ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ VANESSA, ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ด MEGAN (2AM), ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JULIE (8PM) ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookinggoldenlove
  41. FLOWER Spa - BLUEXADO | Thornhill | VAUGHAN:
    BLUEXADO FS โ€“ #06-1102 Centre St ๐Ÿ“ž 416-357-9797 / 416-678-8668 ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ CICI, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ MY LINH, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ AMY, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ SHERRY ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingbluexadolove
  42. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 13 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธ MONICA, ASHA, MALIYA, MONIKA, ANGEL, MIMI, PREETI, ANGELINA, DIYA, PAYAL PEARL, KIRAN ๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  43. FLOWER Spa โ€“ PINK | Scarborough | TORONTO:
    PINK FS โ€“ 3300 McNicoll Ave ๐Ÿ“ž 416-299-5515 / 416-817-3839 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ท ELINA, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ KELLY, ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ MADY (1PM) ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingpinklove
  44. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹Limited Time Special Promotion๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹ โœ…๐Ÿ’ฆ30 Minutes Nude Mass
  45. DareDevil:
    ARIA WELLNESS ๐Ÿฌ๐ŸญADDRESS: 360 HWY 7, UNIT #6, โ™ฅ๏ธRICHMOND HILL,647-222-5683 (PHONES CALL ONLY, NO TEXT'N AVAILABLE) โ™ฅ๏ธTODAY'S Schedule!โ™ฅ๏ธ Loaded lineup with Beautiful Girls : Yoga Lucy, Killer Kelly, Adorable Eva, Magical Mia and Work out๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿšด๐Ÿ’ช Babe Amy! BUY 10 HOURS (GET 11 HOURS) **TODAY'S PICK OF THE DAY ARE ๐Ÿฌ๐ŸญLUCY AND KELLY๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ**
  46. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Click Here Meet๐ŸŒธNina๐ŸŒธAnna๐ŸŒธAmberCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  47. AliceSpa:
    TUESDAY at ๐—”๐—Ÿ๐—œ๐—–๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”, 4915 Steeles Ave. E, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด-๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿต๐Ÿด. 3 Young Beauties Today at Alice Spa. Open 10am to 9pm: CLOUDIA (10am-9pm): is Vietnamese, young, petite 5'2" & 96 Lbs, B Cup, best rim deep bbbj cim. $40 Room Fee + $80 (incl bbbj & fs). +$20 for rim/cim. Excellent open minded services. KITTY (1pm-9pm) is a new Korean girl, super busty, small body, new
  48. wonderspa:
    ๐ŸŒบWonder spa,(9421Jane st unit127)call416-5000-800โ˜Ž๏ธbest massage in vaughan,Tuesday RMT available,๐Ÿ’„sexy very young girl Mimi๏ผŒlong legs ,natural c cup,very good looking amazing massage nice body slide,really popular ๐ŸŽlong hair Lucy Q smile,very good looking ,strong to relax oil ,back walk,more experience,relief your pain,amazing ending๐Ÿ”ฅ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒนmust try
  49. ForeverWarden:
    Tuesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Tracy & Vivian. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups. Her massage is nice, her services will drive you wild & her finish is a dream come true. Tracy is an incredibly cute & pretty Japanese/Taiwanese mixed spinner, about 5โ€™1โ€ and 100 lbs. She is very popular for her exotic massage & services.
  50. HolidaySpa:
    Tuesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธ: EMMA, JENNY & CINDY. EMMA is a very beautiful slim Chinese honey with C Cups, beauty face, & nice services to drive you wild. Jenny has a medium build, nicely curvy with a slim waist, pretty face, and very flexible skills. Jenny will make you very happy. CINDY is slim & incredible
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