Massage Envy

[Surprise Butt Secks]

I think this organization http://www.massageenvy.com/ is going to really be bad for our profession. Just look at their slogan on their front page. It says it all!

I read an article about them last year and thought then they were growing too big very fast and was concerned then. Seems they are really booming in all areas. They pay their therapists $20-25 an hour but also provide them with benefits. And MT's are taking this jobs! Massage Envy is apparently very successful and they have alot of money and continuing to grow with locations popping up all over the U.S. Apparently its causing quite a stir in the massage industry ... because I for one, along with many others, feel its exploiting what we truly do. Those of us who are well trained and not wanting to produce factory type massages nor did we attend a school that trained us to do factory type massage.

But for consumers it's becoming a popular place to get a massage at a huge discount. It's going to adversely affect the cost of massage and what we are paid. I personally feel its exploiting what we do and the demand for a professional that is paid fairly with respect for the work we do.

This is a tough field to be in these days. While the research shows that massage is a booming industry, like all industries that boom, it becomes over exploited and undervalued.

Hey ... Massage Envy, why not create a drive up window for hand massages?

 

[eldude]

massage envy...on the other hand, good for them

I think I understand your concerns, but doubt it will really affect you. There are plenty of McDonald's around but that's probably not a concern for French restaurants and upscale massageplanetes.

I've read about Massage Envy and their argument is basically that they provide benefits/insurance individual entrepreneurs would have to pay a lot to receive, so in theory it evens out. Also, no one is forced to work there.

I would not want to work for anyone else, nor would I want to work in a spa, but employees at a spa probably make as much as I do after their cuts because of taxes, their tips and my expenses. (Independent therapists sometimes, in a misguided sense of superiority, look down on spa therapists. If they feel they can hack the schedule, they are welcome to it. I'd hate it, but there's someplace for everybody.)

As RMTs, we need a fairly small clientele to get to full-time work (I don't even advertise anymore), so I don't feel I'm in competition with anyone because there are a lot of people out there and the sort of folks who go to Massage Envy wouldn't be my type of clientele anyway. I'm sure their customers are nice people too, but I don't take same day appointments, don't do discounts and take extra time sometimes with people suffering chronic pain conditions. People who call around looking for a last minute massage at the cheapest price can get massage too...just not from me. That's okay. It's great to have more people aware of bodywork and Massage Envy is promoting healthy touch.

Just be the best you can be. For most therapists, Massage Envy is irrelevent to how they practice or how they set their rates. Worrying about somebody else's choices is putting energy where it doesn't serve you. Consider that Massage Envy is out there and you're probably not going to change that. I mean this kindly.

Will it steer the profession's rates downward? I don't think so because the services and atmospheres offered is so varied. If somebody charged $39 for a massage for instance, I'd have concerns about how good it was. Or I'd be thinking that they must work awfully hard so they're probably pacing themselves instead of giving my session 100% of their effort and attention. Personally, I'd pass on the "deal." Betcha a lot of people would. (Also, the less I charged in the old days, the more hassles I dealt with.)

This is a relationship business. Relax, build the relationships, work on your own thing, your own skills and success will follow. The beauty of it is one good therapist is not interchangeable with any other. Be you, charge what you think is right and don't worry about what others are doing. That's just their thing.

Live and let live,
Rob

 

[SnowWebster2]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I understand what your saying and I was not implying that I feel I am in direct competition with Massage Envy with respect to my skills and training. It's more that I feel these places are like "massage bars". For people who are new to receiving massage and receive at places like this, depending on the treatment they receive, it will be a reflection upon all massage therapists everywhere. People are always looking for a way to spend less, and that seems to be the key point in this companies marketing, massage for less. Smart consumers and those that really know about massage may see into that and the type of treatment they will receive. I found even at the spa I worked for, repeat clients just didnt understand the differance between a spa massage and a therapeutic massage at a therapists office- however, most spas do charge rates comparable or sometimes more than a massage with a therapist in an office. However, even I would receive massage in spa before I would in a place like ME. I just had horrible experience in the spa I worked for, it didnt work out, because I felt they were forcing me to do things I was not trained to do just for the sake of a buck!

I just feel it gives the public the wrong idea about massage. Some will realize 'you get what you pay for'. And after doing some research have found some negative reviews on this place and the quality of the massage.
Some reviews even used the term "massage parlor". But I have found there are more good reviews than bad reviews, time will tell.

I think places like this ALONG WITH these massage schools that are now being bought by big corporations with a lot of money and their focus has turned into pumping out as many therapists as they can regardless of type of training. And in some cases, the type of training they are receiving in my mind is the cookie cutter type massage, factory type massage. The smaller and very good schools who are training good therapists are finding it hard to compete with these corporate run schools and some are selling out or closing down.

I just feel the essence of true massage will be lost in all of this. Between these types of schools and then ME popping up all over the place... well,
i dunno, just doesn't sit right with me ... in what I feel is the true essence of therapeutic massage.

What type of therapists are working at ME? Who are they, where did they come from and why are they working there?

 

[ILOVEU]

This is gonna sound totally off topic but bear with me.....

I recently decided to take my daughter and myself to get our haircut. I started calling around to find the cheapest place and then I realized what I was doing! When I do go to a lower priced salon I end up NEVER going back! So I went to a higher priced place and am now thinking I will not be going anyplace else for as long as I live in this area!

Hair stylists probably have the same problems we do. But the good ones, the ones that have the training and higher fees are retaining their clientel and getting new clients all the time. Yes, cheap is nice but everyone knows quality counts.

The therapists who work at Massage Envy need to make money and whatever situation works best for you.....well, that's the one you gotta go with. I don't think they're trying to bring down the industry of massage but trying to make it more accessible to the greater public. There's gonna be competition where ever we go. Our clients come to us because of what they think is special about us and that is all we have control over in this crazy booming world! So I try not to sweat these types of things.

Steph!

 

[Rush is Right]

What type of therapists are working at ME? Who are they, where did they come from and why are they working there?

I'd say the type of therapists working at ME are anything from people just like you or me, to people who need some part-time work, a steady job or have to put food on the table and would like to do it with their loved profession instead of doing some other type of job.

Maybe it is a stop off point to get them into private practice, or maybe they just weren't able to find a "better" MT job. Or, maybe it gives them what they need.

I don't necessarily agree with working people for so little money, but at the same time, if it provides what the therapist needs, then at least they have a job.

Here are a few other articles on ME that may be of interest regarding how the therapists on the forums feel about them, but as far as answering your research question, they may be of little use.

Massage Envy
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1095

Massage Envy Article
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1389

Massage Envy
http://www.massageplanet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2808

 

[strine strumpet 2]

Good story yeah, I hear you. I suppose time will tell. If one is in my area, i may go there just to see what type of massage i receive.

I too look for the best prices around, in this economy you have to. I just see this ME place like those asian nail places. Nothing against them, I go to them too but mostly becuz i dont have alot of time and you can just walk in there to get a pedicure. But i realize i get what i pay for.

 

[SkittleSniffer]

Interesting reading on the other posts. I actually searched the forum on massage envy first but didnt find anything which is why i started my post. perhaps im not using the search feature correctly -- ill revisit that later.

Well, overall, i think this type of franchise is gonna run its time and eventually fizzle out and bust. From what ive read its one of those business where people don't know what their getting into or signing up for, and if they get pissed off for not getting what they want, they will go elsewhere. When you get right down to it, the concept is nice, but it wont ever work in this field. Massage is not something you can franchise and that will eventually be apparent to consumers. You just cannot create personalized attention as is needed with massage when running such an operation.

Franchises are better off sticking to burgers and fries and coffee and take out HA!

 

[walk 112 ??l?]

not so sure

Long-term success depends on way too many variables to predict from the outside. They operate in a very business-like fashion, which gets them ahead of most MTs I know. In my area there is a massage business that operates similiarly and is very successful financially. I never hear anything good about them and I know their employees go through a revolving door on a constant basis, but they have a large group of fans who just want in and out quick, cheap, with same-day appointments.

One other advaneforum.xxxe the business I know has is that they do direct billing. Many experienced therapists aren't billing insurance companies for MVAs anymore for a few different reasons. Besides the paperwork and the time involved, in Ontario Massage Therapists have to get a co-sign for a treatment plan for an MVA from a so-called gatekeeper health professional. When the payment does come through, it is now limited to $49 per session, which is far below what we'd ordinarily charge for a session. The possibility of being called to testify in court deters some as well I'm sure. It certainly deterred me. It is younger, eager therapists who jump into insurance billing (often with dollar signs in their eyes) and they often eventually turn away from it as they build up the rest of their practices.

Keep in mind too that when you hear negative things about any business, you generally hear it from former staff who might not have been in the spot for them anyway (and sometimes they just hate having a boss no matter what the boss does) or you hear it from clients. That's not exactly an unbiased sample. If somebody went to that other business and said it was as good or better than the service I provide, and much cheaper, I wouldn't ecpect them to come back (and I'd be okay with it.)

Cheers,
Rob

 

[em101]

ME is not a threat to skilled therapists, especially ones that specialized in advanced therapy modalities. ME is 'entry level' massage- both for the therapists that work there and the clientele. The only feature ME has to offer is cheap massage. People that require legitimate, corrective massage for injuries or chronic pain will not be satisfied with ME. Generally, ME hires therapists right out of massage school. These therapists are willing to work in a 'factory' setting for minimal pay, Incidentally, ME does not pay therapists $20-$25 an hour with benefits; they pay a flat $15 per therapy or minimum wage, depending on how many massages a therapist performs during their shift. Will a highly skilled, career oriented therapist do this? Hardly! This is why ME is not a threat in the long run. Was the Yugo a threat to Mercede-Benz? Is Walmart a threat to Saks 5th Avenue? NO. Why? They appeal to two completely different types of buyer. ME appeals to bargain shoppers that want a massage but don't particularly care if it's a good one or not. All they care about is that it's cheap. Someone who wants quality, professional massage will go somewhere else and pay $60, $70, or more to get it. ME is a fad and will soon fade away once the novelty of it wears off. Many people seek out massage because they receive focused, individualized care that's in stark contrast to a visit to their doctor. If a massage customer finds ME's approach appealing, i.e. being lined up for a massage like planes on a runway, receiving a 50 minute massage from a new, minimally skilled therapist, and has to pay monthly dues to get it, so what!

 

[Pompal 09.]

deleted

 

[Nikki K]

Can you imagine having to listen to a membership sales pitch from a salesperson before or after your massage??? bleh.

 

[Kyle :]]

That's exactly what happens: you fill out their form, and they are "selling" you. You get to enjoy the 50 minute massage & then they "sell" you. At least that's how it went for me when I went there.
Jill/sagetherapist

 

[Metallic]

While visiting another city, a dear friend tried a massage at ME because I had been after her to try massage to find out what it might be able to do to relax her rather tightly wound typeA personality. WELL..... the feedback I got from her was NOT in the least bit favorable. And I quote, "It was like going to "Jiffy Lube" with my car, only they were trying to sell me all kinds of "crap" for my body. The massage was perfunctory, I felt like a number not a person, and the atmosphere was abysmal. If THAT'S what real massage is like, I'll NEVER get another one in my lifetime!!"

Well, after I calmed her down and gave her a gift certificate for an hour's massage with a friend close to her home, she has been a faithful massage client ever since. Her whole experience with that particular ME facility may not be the norm [hopefully it is not], but, if it is, all it will do is drive those person who REALLY want to find out what benefits they can get from massage therapy, they will and do seek out other professionals to provide them with quality bodywork.

I view ME and other things like it to the MickeyD's of massage - something is better than nothing!

 

[Elise Jane]

deleted

 

[nsw]

Actually, the way I see it, Massage Envy is doing us a favor.

Why? Because there are certain segments of the population that come from certain frames of mind. There are those who are primarily concerned with price and only price, and they're willing to sacrifice a little (or a lot) of quality to get the cheapest price. They'll bounce from place to place, looking for the deepest discount or the biggest sale. And then, there are those who want the most bang for their buck and they don't mind paying for something good. They'll sacrifice a little cash to get the quality. Obviously, we want this second group.

What ME is doing is pretty much eliminating that first group for us. They're like a sponge; the price-driven clientele eats ME right up, sort of taking them out of the pool. My theory is, in general, the clientele that will be left are the ppl who would rather pay more for a better, more customized, less hurried massage from a more seasoned and individually-focused therapist, in a quieter and more peaceful environment.

I've already stolen one from ME...a client of mine was talking with his neighbor who was about to go renew her ME membership (ME was all she really knew) and he said, "no, don't do that, we have a pro right down the street!" and talked her into coming to me and she did, and then promptly became a monthly client

Hugs,
~Jyoti

 

[Henock]

LMAO! Jyoti, I love it! In fact, there is a Massage Envy less than 1/2 mile down the street from me. Next time someone calls and b*tches about my fees, (which almost never happens since I raised my prices, go figure,) I'm going to send them down the street to M.E.!

bwahahahaha! :twisted:

 

[Lon]

I do agree on your last point: I think everyone should try it - for $39, why NOT try an initial visit?
After that, you don't sound 'sound' to me. Why, as an LMT would you fel the need to do 6-7 massages per day to make what you can make elsewhere doing 3 or 4 a day? Its so much more healthy on your body, and makes good financial sense too.

I'm not sure that I have anything against ME at all - I rather admire the business model. It's smart. BUT, I have an invested interest in this industry, and I can't tell you enough times or in enough different ways how paying therapists so little for such great effort does *not* take our profession forward. It puts it in a cycle of fast turn-over & burnout.

My newest IC on our team came from ME. I told her, "keep that job, and work here until you feel comfortable with A)staying at both places or B)leaving one of them. She quit ME within 2 weeks. They cut her hours drastically because of "the summer slump" excuse, while I am ever asking her if she can cover more time slots without getting crazy or hurt. She happened to work at an ME that was owned by a very nice & flexible person, but it still didn't pay her bills unless she did about 7 a day.

Please tell me what you can on average make per week take home pay? My ICs make an average of 6-700 a week plus tips. Yes, they do their own laundry at night, but they are always smiling when they come in the next day.

jill/sagetherapist

 

[neoplop]

Response

It is important to note that you can get paid just as the same at ME as you can in other places, that does occur. Many have made assumptions as to what the pay is, some know what it is, some are making downright assumptions. It is not all across the board throughout the US. It is unfair to compare a persons pay at an ME in a more slow area compared to a more busy (city) area. Pay is reasonable where I'm at and we are busy at our location. I have no complaints. Be careful in saying that the industry is downgraded b/c of ME. I would truly beg to differ. You should most certainly be realistic about the pay. ME is a new concept and in slower areas it will take time for that to catch up. New concepts always catch on more easily in large city areas, point made.

 

[Twizzler]

I do agree on your last point: I think everyone should try it - for $39, why NOT try an initial visit?

Two reasons: 1: $40 + tip for a 50 minute massage is not necessarily better than the going rate, so the financial incentive is not compelling.
2: If at anytime before, during or after my massage I have to listen to a sales pitch about "membership," I have just paid dearly for that "discount."

Roxanne, I'm happy you feel you are compensated fairly and treated well at M.E. Personally, I don't like the business model, and would never consider working there, even if there were no other options for me to work as a massage therapist. I would sooner mow lawns in the rain. Your assertion that ME makes massage more available and affordable for people who are not in the "upper eschelons" of society is a red herring though. There are always going to be non-chain alternatives for people who truly need massage and can't afford to pay someone (like me) top dollar.

In addition, many private therapists offer packages or re-book discounts that make things nearly level with M.E., and again, without the sales pitch or "membership." But even if they don't, I'd much rather pay an extra $5 or $10 and go see a therapist who actually has time to listen for 5 minutes before my session to what complaints/aches/pains I have this week, and still give me a full hour on the table for my money. This is the real reason I don't patronize an establishment like M.E., and would never send anyone I respected to such a place.

Incidently, my overhead takes between $7-11/session, (depending on how much work I do in a given week,) and I charge $65/hour, and stay quite busy. So claiming that an M.E. therapist can earn as much as other places, I believe, needs to be qualified to "An M.E. therapist can earn as much at M.E. as at any other low-pay, high-volume spa."

 

[Stephanie]

Why do therapists fear ME?

This is part of an exchange I have had with a therapist on a message board that shall remain anonymous.

I was on my usual soapbox about therapists charging embarrassingly low rates for chair massage

In the service business, competing on price is a sign the apocolypse is near...

"Maybe you should come to Atlanta GA. and try to charging what you do and see if you can get some work. With places like Massage Envy (there are 3 with in10 mils of my place) doing massages for $49.00 an Hr (that gets you 1 Hr massage per month) and $39.00 per Hr massage after that we have to keep the prices low. Hell they (one of them it seems) have started doing out calls to offices and events. You might say that places like that will not last or something, but one of my friends gave in and works there now. She gets paid $15.00 per Hr, and that’s if she is doing a massage or just sitting there, she has no over head, they supply everything. She gets about 4 massages a day and takes home about $50.00 in tips per day (she has taken home in a week about $750 in tips) How can the therapist doing massage out on there own charge what you think is the RIGHT price for there work with places like that down the street? At my home office I charge $55.00 for a Hr, at the events I do (not in office work) I don’t do the “by minute” thing , I do 10 min for $12., 15 min for $17, 20 min for $25, and a 15 min foot massage for $18.
Still my point being, you need to set your prices by what is the going rate where you live.

You are lucky to get what you do for your massage, but most of us can’t do that and still work for ourselves. I can’t charge $60 or $80 for an Hr massage or tell some company that its $70 per HR per therapist for chair massage in there office when the place down the street is doing them for $49 an Hr. Maybe someday someone will open up a place and under cut your prices and you will get to see how it is for the rest off us. "